London's world status and house price boom is now hurting the middle class


By jamFace at 2013-08-04 17:13:12
London, UK
68 replies
10534 views
Page [<< first] 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 of 7
2013-08-09 17:50:00

I enjoy how it compares Brixton and Belgravia.

Have you seen the houses in brixton?

Yeah I didn't really understand that comparison, millionaires living in Belgravia next door to billionaires building enormous underground basements is a absolutely different predicament to gentrification.
So i'll ask again, have you seen, the houses, in Brixton?

Walk out the station, cross directly ahead, go left and right on the corner.

There are, what looks like, 4 story town houses, across the road from housing estates. The contrast made it seem like Brixton is a unmitigated shithole when it's not actually the truth.


2013-08-09 21:32:00

330K for a house in walthamstow, now 400K. wow.

(I know I may have misconceptions, but last i heard of that area, was when a cop I train with told me he was there to break up a fight, and one guy was deceased by the time they got there, hit with some post someone tore off an old fence, i was under the sense you wouldn't feel safe getting home after dark)

Looking for a few months now in that area. It's probably a very good area, but agencies have been pumping up the prices like there's no tomorrow.

Edit: the three large agencies of the area, have become very close to what people voice of agencies like Foxton.

well I guess the Victoria line is pretty convenient, and my wife tells me she knows a friend of a acquaintance who bought a 2 bed flat there for ~130K ~5 years ago.


2013-08-10 00:42:00

I... imagine it's time for me to get used to the fact that I'll never have a property.

Oh well - I kind of like renting. chiefly the part where I call the landlord whenever something breaks and he fixes it from his own pocket. I really love that bit.

When the bubble bursts land will be cheap. Remains to be seen how far it inflates before it bursts though: if it's too far it will bring the banks down, again, and the govt almost certainly will not this time be able to bail them out, so we'll be a kind of worse Greece. So you might not like to live in London then.
You're forgetting overseas buyers though unfortunately...they'll keep London propped up except we go into some sort of worldwide depression, which is looking increasingly unlikely.
This gets bandied about a lot, but does anybody have any real numbers. On the face it makes an amount of sense, but I have doubts that this endless overseas wealth amounts to much.

  1. It's a very British belief that land is the main means to wealth, and British property is the best at it. Aren't we merely projecting the same beliefs onto others. at these Russian millionaires, if I had that cash I'd start a Buy-to-Let empire in Bromley! The incentive that those that are buying in London, want to do so, is because of London's importance in global trade and finance. Any impending recession/problems with the financial sector may be a basis for foreign ownership to reduce, not be a substitution for home-grown buyers.

  2. British, and markedly London, property really isn't performing that well as an investment when compared next to other things. The US stock-market reached an all-time high this week, but an ordinary London property yields less than 4%.

  3. it's the capital gain stupid! - well yes, but unlimited capital gains in the face of less buyers is not sustainable. And the higher market prices levitate above sustainable prices (which can be very roughly approximated by comparing with the more liquid rental market), the elevated probability of a painful correction.

In summary: buyers is just grasping at straws to try and find a reassuring narrative that house prices are sustainable, it doesn't stand to reason.

The best hope for sustainable prices is good old inflation, that's the only thing that can the housing market - the numbers will be steady (or even rise), but the relative value of housing will steadily find a sustainable home.

Not that inflation doesn't initiate other problems, of course.


2013-08-10 02:16:00

I... imagine it's time for me to get used to the fact that I'll never have a property.

Oh well - I kind of like renting. chiefly the part where I call the landlord whenever something breaks and he fixes it from his own pocket. I really love that bit.

When the bubble bursts land will be cheap. Remains to be seen how far it inflates before it bursts though: if it's too far it will bring the banks down, again, and the govt almost certainly will not this time be able to bail them out, so we'll be a kind of worse Greece. So you might not like to live in London then.
You're forgetting overseas buyers though unfortunately...they'll keep London propped up except we go into some sort of worldwide depression, which is looking increasingly unlikely.
Exactly. There is no bubble in London for the reason that it is propped up by more or less unlimited foreign hard cash and boost in population. (an extra 1 million people by 2020 and they are not building even a tiny portion of the new dwellings required).
That's a terrifying statistic! A net increase of 1 million??? If you're no on the ladder now you're screwed.
It's a bit of an over simplification. The populace may expand by one million, in fact it's quite possible that it will, but a significant share of these are low-income people.

Anyone who can't afford to raise the amount required to reach the bottom of the isn't active in the housing market. Their physical presence doesn't make things more expensive, it's people being functioning buyers - making serious offers - that push markets.

The only affect is indirect via the leasing market, but people are remarkably soft when it comes to renting - e.g. five persons might share a three bedroom house, however five people are remarkably improbable to purchase a three bedroom house.


2013-08-10 06:21:00

I... imagine it's time for me to get used to the fact that I'll never have a property.

Oh well - I kind of like renting. chiefly the part where I call the landlord whenever something breaks and he fixes it from his own pocket. I really love that bit.

When the bubble bursts land will be cheap. Remains to be seen how far it inflates before it bursts though: if it's too far it will bring the banks down, again, and the govt almost certainly will not this time be able to bail them out, so we'll be a kind of worse Greece. So you might not like to live in London then.
The bubble will never burst, the government will make certain of that
The government will try and make sure of that! There's wider macro-economic factors at play. They've only been able to get away with 0.5% base rates for so long for the reason that the ECB and Federal Reserve were doing similar things, if worldwide rates went elevated then things would get very complicated indeed.

Not that the ECB or Federal Reserve aren't trying to prop-up their own bubbles of course. As long as we're all approximately just as fucked in terms of economic growth being reliant on increasing an already historically large debt burden, then we can put off doomsday for an additional three years!


2013-08-10 11:09:00

Now? These trends have been going on for decades.
Kinda. Prices trebled under Labour but the guardian didn't grumble so greatly back then as boom and bust was no more.
I was too young to actually notice at the time, but goddamn. They tripled? Ugh.
Yes. Labour's terms were a debt fest and the current troubles all land at brown's door. Not that any muppets sense that. They swallowed all the recession crap.

What labour did at that moment was unforgivable.

Any genuine point you were making there got swept away by the arrogance of the muppets comment. That merely says to me guy sounds comparable an expe- oh, no, wait, he's clearly an arsehole Treat your fellow (less experienced?) posters with respect and we might pay attention to your opinion.
Apologies. There is a very strong socialist theme running rampant through /r/unitedkindom and /r/ukpolitics that is IMHO devoid of reason. Hell, not even socialist, as if you defend Brown you defend corporation's privileges to crony capitalism plus banking bailouts pro the rich.


2013-08-10 14:32:00

Now? These trends have been going on for decades.
That was my initial thinking too, the mass exodus of the middle class will hurt the UK economy for years.

When I lived there until 2011 I earned good money, around £45k, but in the London environs that couldn't even buy us an regular sized family home. I came to the conclusion that the UK housing market was totally conked out and emigrated to the US, where the same comparable salary gets me a huge 4 bedroom house, 2 cars and a nice holiday every year.

Same here. I'm in Canada. disregard the UK - it's not a meritocracy. The sad part is the way everybody supports ever increasing house prices which is really saying you want to enchain your own young.


2013-08-10 17:23:00

That's why I moved out of London.

On a moderate salary of £50k, I'd be able to pay for a 3-bed in a non-slum area ..... never.

You could live somewhere like Leicester or the Stevenage area and commute to the city fairly well. I have a friend who bought a 2 bed with garden and garage for less than £180k and commutes to Moorgate to work. Depends what you want.
I worked in central london and life is too short to throw away 2.5 hours of it each day commuting to work from a place like Stevenage.
Exactly. Is this guy's time worth nothing? He could consult in the city and book an extra two hours a day then use that to cover the costs.

Commuting from that remoteness is the best sign you can get of a broken market plus an insane populace.


2013-08-10 19:25:00

I... imagine it's time for me to get used to the fact that I'll never have a property.

Oh well - I kind of like renting. chiefly the part where I call the landlord whenever something breaks and he fixes it from his own pocket. I really love that bit.

When the bubble bursts land will be cheap. Remains to be seen how far it inflates before it bursts though: if it's too far it will bring the banks down, again, and the govt almost certainly will not this time be able to bail them out, so we'll be a kind of worse Greece. So you might not like to live in London then.
I genuinely don't imagine it will burst. With inflation and interest rates apt to be low in the long term, purchases only if truth be told need to think of the expense of servicing the mortgage rather than the headline cost of the house. The expense of servicing mortgages is quite low and expected to remain so for a long time.
Burst vs. not burst isn't really a beneficial line of thinking really. In the years connecting 2007 and 2009 prices fell 20%, but you won't find anybody who'll admit to a crash. disagreeing over words is quite unproductive. Things go up, things go down, stuff happens that moves further stuff; that's economics!

Anyway: interest rates might be low in the long term, there's no security about inflation. Inflation is by now above target, and has been for most of the past five years.

Indeed, if the projected target for the Bank of England replaces the inflation aim then inflation will get notably higher.

This may be a way out if that inflation gets translated to upper earnings (fuck savers), but if it doesn't then we are heading down the road marked stagflation which will lower people's real-term income...


2013-08-10 23:06:00

I... imagine it's time for me to get used to the fact that I'll never have a property.

Oh well - I kind of like renting. chiefly the part where I call the landlord whenever something breaks and he fixes it from his own pocket. I really love that bit.

When the bubble bursts land will be cheap. Remains to be seen how far it inflates before it bursts though: if it's too far it will bring the banks down, again, and the govt almost certainly will not this time be able to bail them out, so we'll be a kind of worse Greece. So you might not like to live in London then.
What bubble? Property is pricey because need is so high. I don't so this changing anytime soon. overseas investors snap up new developments sooner than the ground is even broken.
Yeah - if apple started underwriting the first 20% of ipads would you look on that as a market going up?

Rates in the US will go up as they cleared their decks in 2008 with a good crash. The UK will then be painted into a corner.


Page [<< first] 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 of 7
Your reply has been removed

Your reply has been restored

Your reply has been edited

Edit failed

An error occured

Are you sure you want to delete this discussion?

Thread delete failed